ERIN CARLSON RIVERA: [00:00:00] Hi, thanks for listening to Practicing Connection. I'm Erin and today we're diving into an episode about how to solve local problems using systems thinking. This episode is part of our From the Archive series where we are updating and re-releasing retired content that we feel is still relevant today.
In this episode, we're hearing from Bob and Jessica about how to solve issues in your community on a systems level, not just a focused level. It's easy to get caught up in a silo to talk past each other or to hyper-focus on just one project. And while hyper-focusing on one project or event or initiative can make a huge impact on your community, it can also cut you off from systemic changes that can have a greater impact on your whole community.
So what can you do about it? What can you do to help your community start thinking about the whole system? Jessica and Bob have some great places to start in this episode. I hope you enjoy it.
BOB BERTSCH: [00:01:00] So Jessica, a couple of episodes ago, we talked about the Community Capital's framework, which brings a systems lens to community development. And by that, I think I mean that it recognises that there are multiple factors that influence community development and that those factors are interconnected in some way.
So that might seem kind of obvious to some people, so I'm wondering, given all your experience helping people address local issues, whether the groups you've worked with already recognised that local issues have multiple interconnected factors or not, I mean, was a systems lens obvious to any of the groups that you worked with?
JESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah, this is a really great question because it really depends on the group and what they're coming together around. Some groups, at least with my experiences, some groups have been hyper-focused on generating more traffic for the local businesses, for [00:02:00] example, and they might tap into things like event planning, but don't think about how that could also have a positive impact on social capital and that having more eyes on the built capital in the area might affect decisions on how the community's political body might spend resources like starting a facade improvement programme, for example.
There's nothing wrong with being hyper-focused on generating more traffic for the local businesses and not thinking about those other things. There's nothing wrong at all with focusing on one goal, but there could be some secondary goals that you could design for. Like how can you design for more interaction between the businesses and the people attending the events?
How can you strengthen the relationship versus just getting people physically nearby the businesses? Other groups, and, and I would say I've seen this particularly when those that are coming together are working to address a health-related issue, whether that's mental health, homelessness, social isolation, or some other community health concern, or like food [00:03:00] systems.
They seem to have an awareness of systems and the interconnections that you're talking about, but these groups can still experience blind spots, but overall they've been aware. Now that's just been from my experience, other parts of the nation, other people who do this work, you know, there's probably a whole slew of answers you could get for this.
BOB BERTSCH: So that's really interesting. You know, one of the things that we build groups of like- minded people, hopefully that's what we have here in practising connection in terms of the folks who listen to the podcast, and of course you and I and everybody who has partnered and has contributed to the, to the podcast, you know, we kind of feel like a little community and I just wonder about it because I think then we make assumptions, either one way or the other, maybe we make assumptions like, "Oh, everybody has to be able to see this.
Or maybe we make assumptions that, "Oh, people who are not like us can't see this or something." Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think it's really interesting to hear your experience and, and see that it's kind of been multiple ways. So, you know, I know obviously I just talked about how we share, you know, [00:04:00] some similar points of view around this.
So I'm assuming in some cases you might have wanted to bring some systems thinking to the table and I'm wondering what was the most challenging part of trying to do that to bring systems thinking to these local efforts that you were helping with?
JESSICA BECKENDORF: Wanted to attempted to was shut down sometimes. So from my experience, it has been the aspect of co-creating solutions with the people most as affected.
You know, I've seen many groups of well-meaning, very caring people get together and want to create positive change. They might have some conversations, they might end up developing some group norms, they might have several meetings together and that through even just having those meetings, they start to develop these norms even if they don't talk about them.
They might even choose some possible approaches that they plan to take together. Those are all wonderful, wonderful things. But when they're asked about [00:05:00] how they've engaged with the people most affected by the issue or how they've engaged with others that are not present, there can be a significant amount of pushback.
And I've had like very significant pushback in the past and I've had others say, "Oh, good question. We didn't mean to, you know, we didn't, we didn't mean to be exclusive." But I've seen this pushback, particularly when they've been asked about engaging with every audience pretty much from like low income populations, you know, how are you engaging with them?
They're most affected by this, even the guy that owns the tattoo parlour downtown with the strange window displays. Sometimes I've seen a glimmer of understanding. They know they need to engage more with others, but they aren't sure how and maybe lack the will to because sometimes because they're judging the other person even when they're trying to resist judgement
So I like to use the example of the guy with the tattoo parlour because that's something that I've actually seen in [00:06:00] several different occasions. You know, the store that's a little bit edgy that has like edgy displays, they're really, you know, kind of making a judgement on how that person has chosen to run their business and how that person is trying to attract people who would come to their business.
So a lot of times they're not sure how to get beyond the things that are pulling them back, including their own judgement , even when they're willing. So the other part of this that I started to talk about a little bit ago is that this group of well-meaning, thoughtful people get together, they start to choose that path forward before they've done much engaging.
they might have done a survey, but that's not the same as relationship building and committing to the struggle. Ignoring the guy with the tattoo parlour just adds to the division. Ignoring the relationship work and doing things for people versus with them further exacerbates differences and doesn't work toward liberation.[00:07:00]
BOB BERTSCH: So as we're trying to move groups forward, are there specific tools or processes that you've used in groups to move them towards a systems approach or a more liberated structure?
JESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah, I think any tool or process that will help people have more understanding for each other and more understanding for how an issue affects different people is going to be really, really useful.
One thing I didn't say as we were talking, you know, a minute ago is that when I have seen pushback because, a group is trying to positively affect or create some positive change for, for instance, a low income population and when you bring up like, "Oh, how are we going to engage with this population?" Sometimes you hear things like, "Well, but this issue, you know, doesn't really have a face that kind of affects all of us at one point in our lives," or something like that.
You hear things like that. And [00:08:00] so I think anything that helps people understand how an issue affects different people who have had different backgrounds and different upbringings is going to be really great. So there are many tools that do this. I'm going toshare an unconventional one that I've adapted from someone whose work I admire very much and who we've had as a guest on this podcast, Bjorn Peterson.
He developed the cycle of Praxis for community development. I always tell him it has a terrible name, sorry, Bjorn has a terrible name, but it's a super simple process. It sounds very fancy, but it's a beautiful, simple process. I pair the idea of having everyone gathering about an issue share their lived experience, which is at the start of the cycle of practise.
I pair that with different variations of activities from applied improv called story circles, which are also beautifully simple practises, which allows some space and time [00:09:00] for everyone in the circle to share their story without interruption or questions or judgement . So here's the simplest version I've used of this activity, but there's, there's a few others that I think are wonderful for moving past understanding and getting toward action, but we're going to start with the, the first one.
Have everyone sit in a circle if possible. Then you're going to want to call out identify the need that you're coming together around. Usually if you're having a meeting with people, there's a purpose that you're having that meeting for. So talk about the purpose, the issue that you're coming together around and then have each person get a few minutes to share a story about their personal experience with the issue.
How has it affected them personally And you'd probably want to ask it more personally like share a story about your personal experiences with this issue. How has it affected you personally? After everyone has a chance to share and mind you, there's no asking questions [00:10:00] like people are just listening to each other, no asking questions, no comments, side conversations.
It is quiet people are sharing. After everyone has had a chance to share, collaboratively articulate two things. What diversity exists among these lived experiences? What similarities exist? Take a look at those things, write them up on a board or papers or however you want to do it. Take a look at those lists and then ask, is there someone whose experience needs articulation but who is not present, who is currently not present?
Who is this? How can we successfully invite their participation into this process? It's not how can we successfully get them to participate, get them to join our effort? How can we successfully invite their participation in this process? Finally, you're gona analyse whether having heard all of these lived experiences, how you might need to [00:11:00] rearticulate that need that you identified at the top before everyone shared their stories.
How do you need to articulate that? How do you need to describe it? Be willing to adjust this also as you gain more participation and learn more about the lived experiences of others so if everyone in the room is coming from a fairly similar background and you start to gain more information about how your issue affects other people, be willing to tinker with the need.
It is actually a really simple process, but it's definitely full of complexity in that everyone's rich stories have a chance to be part of creating the solutions.
ERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That's it for this episode. Thanks for joining us. If you enjoyed this topic or you feel like you still have more questions about what it means to actually deal with systems level thinking, join us for the Military Family Readiness Academy this year. Every year our host organization One Op puts on the Academy a series of free [00:12:00] interconnected professional development webinars and podcast episodes that are focused on a central theme.
This year's theme is building community capacity to support military family wellbeing. Our guests will go in deeper on topics similar to what we discussed today with practical advice grounded in what's happening in the communities right now. The academy starts with a session on collective competence, the idea that the communities best support military families when infrastructure and resources are intentionally designed with those families in mind.
On-demand recordings will be available after each session so there's flexibility even if you can't join us live this August. If you'd like to check out the academy, visit oneop.org/mfra or check out the link in our show notes. We'll be back next week. Until then, keep practicing.
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CREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.
